Image via Wikipedia
Here is wikipedia’s definition:
“A startup company or start-up is a company with a limited operating history. These companies, generally newly created, are in a phase of development and research for markets. They have an uncertain future, and may result in a spectacular success, or failure”.[source]
Like every generic term, I see a need to localize the definition of ‘startup’ term for the Indian market.
As somebody, who has been quite involved in this space (from outside, have been maintaining the startup directory), I really see a different picture:
To me, it’s a basic diff of taking it Part time vs. Full time?, i.e. :
Are you giving it all for this baby of yours? Are you ditching your cushy job and embracing ‘those’ tough times? Do you really believe in this venture?
If not, then you are not a startup (you are a wannapreneur, but still not an entrepreneur.)
I am surprised to see whole lot of entries coming to the Indian startup directory, who are nothing more than casual ideas.
I am surprised to see whole lot of media/events promoting such ‘casualpreneurs’ (term I read in livemint) as entrepreneurs – and in turn, promoting mediocrity.
These casualpreneurs tend to close their ‘venture’ very soon – they have no obligation to product/users and even to themselves – their life doesn’t depend on this – their credibility is not at stake.
I am not against trying, but am against calling those ‘casual’ ventures a startup. To me, it’s an insult to all those entrepreneurs who are taking the venture full time at the risk of personal/professional life (no matter how good/bad the venture is).
Let’s accept this – pluGGd.in is not a startup (even though the amount of effort/traction we receive is awesome) and so are all other entities who are running their ventures part time.
Let’s respect those who are ‘giving’ it all for what they believe in – I hope other entities who ‘romance’ these ‘casualpreneurs’ take note of this – ‘coz if you aren’t, you are just adding to the noise.
You are infact, hurting entrepreneurs because they need to steer through this ‘black’ noise created by damn stupid ‘casual’ media and such events.
And unfortunately, I witness whole lot of events/media articles talking about such ‘casualpreneurs’- they don’t seem to matter to me anymore.
And you?
Very good Post, Ashish. I haven’t seen the Indian Startup Directory, guess I missed it in between somewhere. Will take a look at it.
I like your thought process.
What precisely is you point my friend? Wanapreneur, casulapreneur, freakoprenuer…nice imagination you have got there.
Increasingly, I only see furstration and misplaced utterances put on this blog. From Axis of Evil to now this. Let others be what they are. You focus on startup as you define them. Why are so rattled by what noise others are making! Everybody is a wanabe afterall…you being a techcrunch wananbe.
Gaurav
Somebody needs to spell a spade a spade and am glad some people are doing it.
“You focus on startup as you define them. Why are so rattled by what noise others are making” – You need to understand the importance of ecosystem that helps US startups achieve what they are.
If you promote mediocrity (as they are doing in India), you get mediocre stuff only.
@VC Can these people who are promoting mediocrity be named here, may be I am a latecomer?
I think we know why US startup scene is what it is. They dont dissipate their energy in undermining others (who might be on a different level of evolution; if it can be called so) and putting themselves on a higher pedestal.
@Gaurav,
It’s not about the frustration or ‘imagination’, it’s about a hard reality that many wannapreneurs do not want to understand.
What’s really happening (w/o taking names of people/events) that many of these ‘part timers’, owing to their contacts end up getting all sorts of goodies while the deserving ones dont.
At the end of the day, many of such part timers simply shut shop – they dont care.
But, what they leave is a big black mark, qns like viability of a good startup happening from india.
I am of course, irritated with such behavior, esp when they emanate from few personalities who have bydefault taken a ‘mentor’ role in the ecosystem.
Oh BTW, I just noticed a nice quote on this blog which I think Ashish has not read
It goes like:
“The entrepreneur in us sees opportunities everywhere we look, but many people see only problems everywhere they look. ….”
So may be in this problem of medicirty and noise , you could see an opportunity and become an enterpreneur….and not a problemeneur (sorry was being imaginative but doesn work)
Not a bad thought either..
A part-time devotee may be working part-time to feed his baby(startup),and when the baby grows to the level when it starts “payback” then the part-timer may desire to turn a full-timer.
But still,a full time devotee has more probability of getting success than a part-timer in startup world.
@Prashant
To me, it’s not about probability of success – it’s about the seriousness. Many of the so-called part time initiatives do not fly because they are like ‘will do-it, when I get time’.
There s nothing wrong about it – just that it doesn’t deem to be called a startup then.
Nice post, Ashish.
But nothing to worry. There’s space for everyone. If something is worth making a voice, am sure it wud be heard beyond miles, even with such noices… After all, its the survival of the fittest..
I think the point in the article is not about undermining the wannapreneurs. Its about the committment they have to grow their baby. I have been personally through this process as a part-timer and now a full-timer, and know that when you are a part-timer, there is feeling of a cushion somewhere back in your mind, when the check is getting dropped at every monthend in your account (your salary). The commitment is there, but it is skewed.
Yes. There could be wannapreneurs who are just testing the waters, and even if the response is not good, they believe in it, and take the first step into entrepreneurship and go for it.
The point is: how many of the wannapreneurs would take the plunge after they see a not-so-helpful response from the market, the VCs, the Angels, friends and family?
Don’t the wannapreneurs skew the startup scene?
Great post Ashish. Its awesome to see you writing what you feel here. I cannot agree more. People from livemint and NEN and similar organizations need to wake up and understand what they are doing and promoting. They are screwing up the whole damn ecosystem.
Ashish,
The maturity of this article is probably a little beyond the cantankerous fellows who are getting all angsty with this piece.
The very nature of ‘headline news’ is that it gets replaced the very next day. So really, nothing to worry about if these casualpreneurs/wannapreneurs are getting all the attention. What really matters is success – if they are able to get customers, revenues – that ultimately distinguishes the men from the boys.
But i appreciate the fact that this article is going beyond just talking about the PR blitz/noise they generate. It is true that they create a terrible impression of startups in the market. In a world where a spoken word has enough power to bring stock of a successful company crashing down, this is a serious problem. But what can one do?
Entrepreneurs are good at putting their head down and working fanatically at what they are best at. So i guess we will have to continue (as always), while good people like you talk about it. I hope it helps.
Let us sincerely hope that entrepreneurship does not become like the Page 3 phenomenon. Elitist, pretentious, and wannabe.
Also, every word rings true – and it makes sense for entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs only. The rest will just not get it. (Which explains some moronic comments above mine) They will sit on the fence and talk talk talk. Maybe someday their ass will start hurting from sitting on the fence, and they will ultimately take the plunge from being spectators to players.
Ashish,
Great post, worth exploring in detail.
The question is one of commitment and confidence. There is nothing wrong doing a part time business as long as you have some other way to demonstrate your commitment and seriousness.
For example : You can work at TCS and run a lorry transport service. Your commitment takes the form of your investment in the vehicles, permits, drivers and such. It may not be possible for a tech startup to go this route because of the time required from the founders.
Wannapreneurs are those who do not have many cards on the table which show their seriousness.
Keep it up. I like this blog because you are not afraid to voice unpopular views !!
Maybe you should read this before glorifying those who quit ‘cushy’ jobs:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/uncov/~3/366631052/an-article-about-startups-that.html
I think the smart guys incubate ideas while holding a day job. The fools jump the gun not knowing that 9 out of 10 startups fail.
@First-post, what’s the point of that link?
If you read carefully he talks about people who take everything written on the net very seriously. That is exactly what you are doing.
That man quit a job at google to start up. He a big f****** example of what is an entrepreneur.
“If you read carefully he talks about people who take everything written on the net very seriously. That is exactly what you are doing.”
No, I don’t take EVERYTHING i read on the net seriously. I take only some things seriously – like that article.
The point of the link is that the glorification of entrepreneurs simply for the risk that they take is as stupid as cheering the moron who does motorcycle stunts without any protection.
In summary, entrepreneurship is about new ideas and their execution regardless of whether the founder quit a job or stayed at his job.
You have a valid point there and an amazing description – “Motorcycle stunts without any protection”.
I definitely agree that you shouldn’t quit until you see a good chance that things would be back to normal in a year or two, but that’s not the point of the post.
It’s about the fact that when you go to the media and talk like you’re the shit, you should have something real to back it up.
Quitting your job is like graduation. You can only go so far without it.
By the way, shouldn’t your name be second-post now!!
That is like saying “It doesn’t matter if the cook was reading a book while cooking. What matters is if the food is tasty.”
I totally agree. The only thing that matters is if the food is tasty in the end. But to make good food while also reading a book would need a master chef. So if we bring the analogy back to the start up world, in order to stay on his job and also create a successful startup, one would need to be a master entrepreneur and if he is such a big stud, why would he need the day job in the first place !
The thing is this: 9 out of 10 startups fail but out of those who never start, none succeedes. If the aim of starting a company is to make money, I guess you might be fine doing it part-time. If it is about living a dream, I am wondering how can you be honest to both a day job and a start-up?
But I think all of us here are pretty much sold on the idea of running their own company. So guys do as you find it best for your situation as nobody else can tell you better about your life then you yourself.
Abhaya
Read this and tell me if you would put them as wannapreneurs /casualpreneurs /entrepreneurs.
“Two college time friends meet after a long time in a alumni meet. Decide to help their Alma-mater. Both have day job, one in US and other in India. They have all the resources but little time to put in. They can’t leave there day job as this supports their families. So they float a venture. This venture helps the students of their college with all the resources/ guidance they need to make their first product. Now when it comes to promotion of this product no one is willing to call this a serious business. Just because the two friends behind it have not kicked their employers’ ass to bid them good bye. The students never bothered to distribute designations, all they were concerned with was successful development of the product.
Now tell me who is the real mother of this baby? The two friends! whom you call as part time or surrogate moms or the students whom nobody bothered to take seriously, just because they did not decide the product manager, strategy planner, UI developer.. blah blah and all those serious looking designation amongst themselves. All they new was “i am in the team.” ”
Please let me know what would you call such people who help grow the ecosystem without kicking their employer’s ass. And also who is the real mother of the baby.
@Ashish, you probably know which web product i am talking about.
I wont mention it here else you will call it an emotional-promotional stunt.
and also tell me which is better.
1. I gather lot of resources(to survive 3-4 years) from my job and then jump in the startup pool.
Or
2. I get enough resources and to get started and then jump in the startup(pardon me! not allowed to call it a startup, yet) pool and also help some budding brains to experience what it feels like being in and around the pool. Making sure nobody drowns but some (including me) might learn to swim.
@Naman – Let me be very candid here.
I know which startup are you talking about – and let me share this clearly – most of all your ‘so called marketing’ pitch hasn’t worked for you guys.
You know why?
Because you used all the cheap stuff to get things out – if it had been a ‘real desperate’ stake fot you, you could have done a good job.
How can I say that?
Today at MoMo Monsoon Bangalore, I met one of the players in the same space – facing similar issue – and these guys are talking about how to build a brand using effective means, how to tie up with some other entities in the ecosystem to get that market reach etc.
W/O doing anything cheap.
BTW, @Ashish, Nice post to promote the startup directory.
Naman – “Nice post to promote the startup directory” – very insightful understanding of the entire post!
“I think the smart guys incubate ideas while holding a day job. The fools jump the gun not knowing that 9 out of 10 startups fail.”
@first post: lol … man you are funny!
@naman may be you should not leave an anonymous comment. Its your boldness that would get you noticed. Read Vivek’s comment above. You have to demonstrate dedication in one way. Btw .. leaving a job is not kicking the employer’s ass. How is it that? Staying there, not working on their stuff, taking salary and working on ur startup in office is.
“Staying there, not working on their stuff, taking salary and working on ur startup in office is.”
i get it. A few rotten apples have destroyed the whole basket.
Great post Ashish. Looking forward to meet you at OCC.
I think no point debating the righteousness of this post, we all have a right to our views.
Ashish has raised some valid points, rather than debating, it will be better for “anytype – preneurs” to reflect on it and strengthen their foundations.
Pingback: The Startup Issues | Gyaan Sutra
As per Ashish I myself an a casualpreneur/wannapreneur. But I don’t see anything wrong with it. I don’t see how this is a question of deserving v/s un-deserving. The only people deserving are the ones who follow their dreams.
A question to Ashish : Would you rather casualpreneurs stop doing , close shop and only continue when they have balls to do it full-time ?
Btw, no definition of start-ups mention that it has to be a full-time venture.
@Raseel – It’s not about the definition. It’s about dedication.
I clearly said that trying out is an awesome thing, but that doesnt mean you call yourself an entrepreneur.
Why would you want to do that, when you are not?
nice post …..keep it up ………….
my question on is it that if a college students starts a company while working part time for it cos half of time is gone fulfilling college duties….be qualify to be called a startups……..and the main topic of this post was whether to call a part time venture a startups …….will it ever matter if a venture is called one? cos success depicts the name not vice versa………
Cool it guys ! Ashish never said that nobody should start-up part time. If not full-time, probably part-time is better than not starting itself. But you have to realize the part-time is one step behind being full-time into something and that one step can be huge ( inspired by Neil Armstrong here
). It takes a lot of courage to take that step and a lot of foolishness if I may add 
( Stay hungry, Stay Foolish anyone?)
I think what Ashish is irked at is the media and I share the sentiment. In the name of ecosystem if all you have are opportunistic entities who are out to glorify each and every thing out there, I doubt if it will hold up when going gets tough (recession ?). It is not something on which I can depend for support and good critical advice as an entrepreneur.
It might be possible for good companies and ideas to come on top of all this noise as somebody said above but it will surely take a lot more effort and energy, something which can find better use. But I guess in the end, each one of us is a part of the ecosystem and shares the responsibility in how it shapes up !
Abhaya
Ashish, I agree with you on the fact that there is a lot more seriousness & courage required to get into a full time effort. But I dont think that fact should get any brownie points. What really matters is the idea and ability to execute. I have seen quite a few people w/o strong ideas and not following up with good implementation taking the plunge. You may call it guts but I would call it foolish. On the other hand there are many ebays which started off part time and made it big after which ppl have actually taken the plunge.
Also all the quotes about “stay hungry…. stay foolish” (refering to someone’s comments above) are nice to hear on youtube videos or a grad speech and from someone who has already made it big. I am sure these words would not have come out before the success story or if it had been a failure.
Jason started 37 Signals as a casualpreneur. And according to this post, he was noise. Google was started when Larry and Sergey were doing their PhD. Heck, there is no magic stage where a project automatically becomes a startup. There is no universally accepted ISO definition of a startup.
I would agree with you if you people wrongly call their startup projects as startup companies. But there is no shame in calling your 3 weeks hack a startup. In fact, by definition, it is a startup.
And it is mistake on part of stakeholders if they get swayed of number of startups. They ought to gather more information before making any decision. It is like people who want to invest abroad get confused by number of countries in the world.
Pingback: Weekly Recap (Aug 25th – 31st) |Technology and Business Startups in India
Paras, I was just about to mention 37signals and Google !
So now I’ll try to give a different analogy.
Ashish’s point is that, although not wrong, part-time ventures create a noise and divert the focus from the real good startups – the one who have gone full-time. This is an “insult” to them and they “deserve” better. Media “should” report more on the latter.
Although plausible and well-intentioned, I’m not too sure this argument is valid and it can be shown with a simple thought experiment. Lets take two startups, A and B. A’s founders have day jobs but they burn the mid-night oil to create a product which is truly awesome ! Not just cool, but this product actually solves real problems for the users and they are even able to find people ready to pay for this !
Startup B, on the other hand is just the opposite. Although they went full-time and put in all their savings into the startup, the product they built is, well, a pile of crap. It is mediocre, does nothing useful that wasn’t already available and is unusable. I don’t know, another yaari.com, may be?
Now here is the thing. No amount of “passion”, “commitment” will make B’s product less crappy. Users want to discover the useful products, wherever they come from and as long as the media is doing just that, I think everything is fine. (Please don’t misconstrue this. I am NOT saying that the Indian media is doing everything right.)
There is a story which goes that, while attacking France, the German forces burnt the bridges after crossing them in WWII to keep the soldiers motivated. Going full-time is a bit like that. It shows that you’re committed to this thing and are willing to put up. All fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, look at the results and not proxies.
Startups don’t “deserve” anything from the media, the users or anyone else. They have to earn it.
I think all of us will do well to not fall into the trap of labels or generalizations. By definition, startups are working in the zone of low probabilities and labels are likely to cause more harm than good here.
cheers
nilesh