Entrepreneurship – The China vs. India Divide
There are scores of articles in every major newspaper and every major magazine comparing India with China on various economic progress indicators. There are even books written about Tiger of India pitted against Dragon of China. To those who base their opinions on such reports, articles and books, it looks as though India is posing a strong completion to China, when in fact every measurable economic indicator suggests that China is clearly leading India on all fronts. Moreover the gap between these two countries is only widening with each passing year. And yet, many Indian commentators continue to complacently believe that India has some edge somewhere when in fact none exists.
The tone of these reports and analysis comparing India with China suggest that India is actually inching towards China. That is not the case. In reality China is leaving behind India by a bigger margin every year. It is becoming tougher and tougher for India to catch up. In the last few years, Chinese have built the biggest dam on the planet, built the longest bridges, built the fastest cities, built their own planes, submarines, ships, magnetic trains, and even the highest railways while India continued to lay another layer of asphalt on its decrepit roads after each rainfall.
India is not even showing a promise of catching up. None of its policies suggest this. None of its initiatives give a glimmer of hope. Even the Indian industry is not thinking big. It is still content to play a small game.
Is English really India’s edge?
Indian commentators continue to tell us that all this China-leading-India comments are based in myth, because Indians have English which Chinese don’t have.
Is English really India’s edge? Only when India looks at itself as servicing the West using its BPOs then yes, English gives India the edge. However, if the competitor is bent on actually creating its own technology product industry to take on the West, does English still matter?
When was the last time a Japanese car company could not sell its cars because the makers were not good at English? When was the last time someone in Europe balked at buying a Sony Walkman because its makers couldn’t speak English? When it comes to China, how come their lack of good English not stop Huawei from becoming world #2 in telecom equipment? How come it did not stop Lenovo, Haier and ZTE from becoming leading global brands? Just to give a perspective to Indian readers – 2 telecom equipment companies of China, Huawei and ZTE put together made USD 30 Billion in 2008 while the entire IT-ITES industry of India put together made USD 58 Billion in 2008-09.
China is changing the rules of the games. It is taking on the West where the West has dominated so far, bringing the fight closer to the technology leaders, while India has conveniently told itself that it will not even play this game.
Indians are in self-denial. They foolishly believe everything Thomas Friedman tells them, and they are happy serving their European and American masters setting up BPOs, KPOs, LPOs, software services, helping them do their things in a cheap and cost-effective way, while Chinese are poised to take on these European and American masters head on. It’s as though the Chinese have completely overthrown their colonial inferiority complex.
For many years now, Indians gloated over the characterization that India is good at software services while China is good at manufacturing. This was a convenient characterization that only Indians believed because the books were written in English which only Indians could understand. Chinese blissfully unaware of what Friedman said were not constrained by this characterization and hence clearly violated all hierarchies.
Indians limited themselves to serving the West. When they looked in the mirror, they said, “I am an Indian. I am good at services. I should just stick to it”. That India is only good at software services became a cultural phenomenon with every major industry bigwig repeating it on various forums. Even Indian government fell into this trap where all incentives and subsidies were geared only to promote the software services companies. Go to a hardware park in India and compare it with a software park in India, you will recognize the step-motherly treatment meted out to the hardware companies.
India made no attempts at taking on China in manufacturing. Nor did they attempt to take on the West to go up the value chain to actually deliver technology and products. The Flat World theories told them that they can just concentrate on what they were good at, that is Software Services, KPOs, BPOs and LPOs, giving up on manufacturing forever thereby handing over the race on a silver platter to China, and giving up on technology products thereby continuing to serve the West.
China not only won the race in manufacturing and consolidated its position, it is now entering the technology product space, the domain held closely by the European, American and Japanese technology leaders. What more, it has started to beat these leaders at their own game. Huawei has recently won the contract to supply 3G equipment in Norway, the bastion of Nokia. While India made feeble attempts with C-DOT and ITI who are not even able to sell into BSNL, China has launched not one but two major telecom companies – Huawei and ZTE, that not only sells within their countries, they sell to BSNL also.
China vs. India
CK Prahlad in his closing comments at Nasscom Summit of February 2009 advised that Indian companies should foster more startups because they are the ones which bring vibrancy to the economy. His advice comes late, and even when it comes, it falls on deaf ears.
Infosys, TCS and Wipro, the giants of Indian software services which Thomas Friedman lauds, did not do much to sponsor or promote startups in India (barring few exceptions).
Their presence in India did not help any startup, except that many ex-employees went out and started companies on their own without any support or encouragement from these parent companies.
Meanwhile, China has launched extensive nationwide program to promote entrepreneurship in China. I was told that even a district head, equivalent to Indian District Collector, could invest up to half a million US dollars to a company that sets up shop in his district. Writing about China, a report says:
An analysis of documenting the tremendous growth of the Chinese entrepreneurial and cultural initiatives since the demise of Communist leader Mao Zedong reveals that this accounts for the Chinese economy’s double digit growth in the last couple of decades. [1]
It is clear to some countries that startups are essential for the growth in economy. Not so, thinks India. Indian has never believed in startups. They don’t think they add up to anything. The government is obsessed with giants because they look at them as employment provider – therefore the bigger the employer the better it is. Not a single major initiative has been taken in the last few years to promote startups in India. While the government boasts of loans to SMEs, when startups actually approach the banks, they feign ignorance of any such initiative.
All initiatives and decision making bodies in India are headed by people who have been good software services and therefore there is not a single policy that actually aids home grown brands, products and technologies. STPI still thinks that software is exported only as floppy, ftp or a CD. If you put that software in telecom equipment, a mobile handset, or a DVD player, then it does not recognize it as software and hence are not given the incentives. If Apple existed in India, there is not category for recognizing it. The prevailing mood is clear – you serve a foreign master you get the incentives; you try to become a master you don’t get any incentives.
Also, there are not many places a startup can raise funds in India. That’s why most startups continue to be family-owned or family-backed. First generation entrepreneurs find it impossible to raise money. The number of VC firms in India is limited while the government funds are small. Most government funds are small and therefore their mandate does not allow them to fund big ideas, while the miniscule few bigger size funds do not fund loss-making companies – which completely rules out startups.
China, on the other hand, is actively promoting startups through various forums and incentives. Though it is a communist country it hosts millions of entrepreneurs and VC firms which is aiding its economy.
China currently has over 200 million entrepreneurs and it houses 200 venture capital firms. The country accounts for 24.6% of the total entrepreneurship activities across the world, far ahead of Indian at 13.9% and the US at 14%, according to a survey by Global Entrepreneurship Monitor.
About 116 Chinese companies are listed on NASDAQ, as against 2568 US firms, Israel’s 63, and a handful from India, says the study. [1]
China is even popularizing entrepreneurship as a cultural attitude with various initiatives including TV programs.
…a Chinese reality TV show “Win in China” has received applications for entrepreneurial ventures from over 1,20,000 aspirants. Of these, 108 were chosen for prize money and working capital of $5 Million. [1]
Indians don’t know what to do. They are confused. They don’t know if they are socialist or capitalist. The reality is that they are clueless – they are neither capitalist nor socialist. China is both socialist and capitalist playing these two cards really well. The only floating hope for Indians has been their mastery of English. And the following observation should submerge that hope as well.
To give competition to India and other cost-effective English speaking countries like the Philippines, millions of Chinese students are learning English systematically. “China will become the largest English speaking geography in the world by the end of this year”, Compton added. [1]
What’s your opinion?
[1]: China is an entrepreneurship juggernaut, Times of India, 17 November 2009.
[Guest article by Sujai Karampuri, CEO/Founder of Sloka Telecom. Article reproduced from his blog.]
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That, dear friends, is the best article ever on pluggd.in
One of the best thoughtful critique about India.
TWO-THUMBS-UP to Sujai Karampuri. Excellent article.
Loved the article. Great to read such opinionated essays here. I am guilty of having read many books on India vs China and being misled into the comfortable cocoon of existence for India these books preach.
* Is English really India’s edge? *
I think they say it in the context of – “Imagine how much it would suck if we did not even have English”
well, the sad thing is I can’t even understand the Indianlish (Indian English!)
Yea, I loved it … I hope the zealots don’t come cribbing all over the blog.
Brilliant Article. Facts and opinions – well blended. This is so much in deference with TechCrunch’s honey-eyed view of India morphing into Silicon Valley.
This article should get more publicity.
Wonderful article Sujai.!!Kudos!
But here are some facts I like to put in for a discussion
a)Private rights are dramatically limited in China when it comes against public interest. limited private property rights tend to undermine entrepreneurship at its core.This is reverse in India.
b) The chinese Govt wants to control everything and most companies in China are state owned enterprises.bureaucrats remain the gatekeepers, tightly controlling capital allocation and severely restricting the ability of private companies to obtain stock market listings and access the money they need to grow. Indeed, Beijing has used the financial markets mainly as a way of keeping the SOEs afloat.
c) There is no realiable information on whats happening in China.newspapers like Xinhua are controlled by the government.Market information—information gathered by impartial, objective observers in return for monetary compensation—is also scarce in China.Except the localites..none can invest reliably in china.
d) if u are going to say that China leads in roads,power,telecom ..I am going to argue that India leads in legal system,intellectual property,CEO market..
e)Like consumer electronics and Automobile to china, india has Software,banking,Advertising,pharma
f)Lenovo was acquired from IBM
…then can we say that india owns jaguar brand ? 
g) FDI has poured in for china,whereas in india it accounts for around 10-15% of the foreign money flowing in.There is good and bad in this.In the case of china ,FDI has substituted for local domestic entrepreneurship.
h)India has a bottom up approach and china has a top down approach..which shows the difference in their political systems.Its difficult to predict which is going to work out in the long run.
But every country needs to growth with respect to its context.India has a different past ,different present and will carve out a different future.We need to keep democracy safe as we have enjoyed freedom for aorund 50 years and then have an inclusive growth in all sectors irrespective of IT or Retail.
China has not had inclusive growth in the last 10 years.Chk out the GINI coefficient which tell about inequality in wealth spread.China’s inequality is way above india.This is suprising since the communists are expected to spread equality.
All that said I affirm the fact that we have along long way to go up in infrastructure and capital reforms.Hopefuly indian government should learn from their counterparts in “getting things done”.
PS: Most things I have mentioned above are facts I remembered through the books and articles by Traun Khanna,Thomas Rawski and Yasheng Huang
Cheers
VJ
Just contemplating on the following point:
a)Private rights are dramatically limited in China when it comes against public interest. limited private property rights tend to undermine entrepreneurship at its core.This is reverse in India.
And is that a bad thing? When China wanted the fastest bullet train in the world to be run in Shanghai, it just announced that. People had to vacate their houses for demolition for the project (and were given other houses, or compensation). But now Shanghai has the best metro ever! For the greater common good of the populace, such steps have to be taken, even when a lot of people will be dissatisfied and hold rallies etc.
Contrast that with India, Mumbai: Just because a celebrity Lata Mangeshkar doesn’t want a flyover to be constructed near her house (because the noise would disrupt her riaz), the project was stalled for God knows how many years.
Democracy is good, but sometimes the government has to step up and do what needs to be done – for growth, for infrastructure, for innovation.
Anuj I agree totally with the infrastructure handicaps in india.
You can either be black or white.You can’t be grey , when it comes to democracy
Now on the other side we had TATAs chased away from singur.Lets not debate whether its good or bad.But in the case of China ,no one will b there to hear abt the peasants or farmers.
Totally valid @black or white comment.
I guess peasants and farmers in China are not as poor as they are in India, they use heavy machinery instead of working their ass off on the fields. But I’m not sure on this point… any pointers please?
They are as poorly paid as in india.The gini coefficient of China reveals this fact
I work in Singapore,and have spoken to chinese cab drivers on why they were here.They actually work for a very very low salary in SG,which according to them is comparitively higher to what they earn in rural china.
I dont claim India is better here
d) if u are going to say that China leads in roads,power,telecom ..I am going to argue that India leads in legal system,intellectual property,CEO market..
Now that surely is a laughable assumption!
a) India might be better in legal system than China according to you, but on the whole, it sucks at the core. Remember Sunny Deol’s dialogue from the movie Damini, “Taareekh pe tareekh, Taareekh pe tareekh, Taareekh pe tareekh.” That easily sums up our legal system. Remember that justice delayed is justice denied.
b) Intellectual property: Individual cases might prove that this is true, but again… taken as a whole, what’s so great about the intellectual property in India?
c) CEO market: Okay I completely missed this one. What’s a CEO market, again?
In China…there is no justice at times.You remember Tiananmen square ?
Intellectual property – if none of your discoveries are protected..then how will u sustain innovation in your country ? innovation is primary key for any economy …India is not an innovation engine by any chance..But we are set safely for innovations in future….
CEO market – interest among CEO’s across the world about the Country they are gungho about in the next 10 years …twice the number of CEO’s opted India when compared to china…
I dont have the link for this right now..apologies.
I am glad something as interesting as this write up I got to read at pluggd ! We Indians always applaud on our past glories and refuse to overcome our fears and weakness !! Till when we all would be happy creating a rosy dream for ourselves. We need to buck up and run the race !!!!
Brilliant Article! A reality check!
@VJ
“Lenovo acquired the former IBM PC Company Division, which marketed the ThinkPad line of notebook PCs, in 2005 for approximately $1.75 billion.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo
Lenovo was not acquired but it acquired IBMs PC division.
@shashi true shashi.Nobody knew lenovo, before acquiring something from IBM.It was only after the acquisition that lenovo became global.
And that exactly is the point. A home grown company within 20yrs of its existence went on to buy one of the best technological product from a behemoth. Now One Indian company which can match this?
Yes I agree with Anuj that it’s one of the best articles on Pluggd.in
It has it’s share of flaws but overall it’s head on the message it wants to convey very convincingly
wonderful article..i think we r scared to take on anyone…we r obsessed with our service(servant) skill. we are complacent with whatever little growth we r having. even we ourselves dont want to turn into masters…
If interested in learning more about the ‘Win in China’ game show – a business plan nationally televised in China – you might be interested in watching a documentary by the same name. The ‘Win in China’ film examines the game show and demonstrates how entrepreneurial activity in China has exploded. Visit http://www.2mminutes.com to learn more about the film.
Thanks for the info mdevitt.!!
Isolated examples serve little use.
I’d suggest we don’t ask questions as to what the government has done. They grapple with much more serious and complicated issues that lay men understand.
Startup eco system has to improve. Let us do what it takes. There are several people toiling to make a difference (and I consider pluggd.in is one of them).
Several myths quashed. Now lets move on to do our bit to improve the ecosystem. Lets talk about that, I’d be more interested. How an aspirant can improve the situation.
Three things stand out about (H)india – Religion, Riots and Rashee ! So, get your Kundli checked.
we the Indians in general have the bad habit of magnifying our abilities and minimizing our failings. true present condition of India is manifested by the ease of destructive operations by foreign forces. even the holding of commonwealth games in 2011 is in doubt due to our inability to build infrastructure and keep law and order.
a country which has such abysmal law and order situation cannot boast of any legal system and democracy. moreover not all Indians are alike. due to century of indoctrination most high caste Indians
are averse to sweat of their brow and have kept to the medieval habits of separation from the common masses.
Indians love to associate themselves with same brand name like Infosys rather than to create something new. I have very heated argument with my friends about what we should look in any job offer. Most of them say their preference is in order of brand,salary,location. They don’t have care about job profile. They get smitten by big building, press releases of any company.
Excellent article.Very true.
A brilliant and a very pragmatic piece. The only notable product development in India that comes to mind is TATA Nano. Otherwise, there is not a single game changer that has been/is being made in India. It is high time giants like Infy/Wipro which have billions of dollars in cash, invested in research and product development. They must realize that the best companies in the world are rated so because of their uncanny ability to create markets out of nowhere (e.g: Apple). While it is true that new product development is risk laden, it is also equally true that without substantial risk there is no scope for disproportionate rewards.
India’s motto
“What can brown do for you ?”
I remember listening to a speaker who asked the audience “How many of you think that Chinese people not knowing English is a problem for them?” Everyone in the audience raised their hands to which the speaker replied “The time is not far when you guys not knowing Chinese is going to be a problem for you!”
that’s so funny but to the point!
India can never catch up to China in entrepreneurship if the investors dont want to take smaller bets and are only looking for the 20x returns in 5 years which never happen.
We definitely need more risk appetite and more investors who are happy putting in $500K-$1M to get a return of $5-10M 5 years down.
Not a single fund in India fits that bill.
@rahul
well said..
ultimately indian failure to progress like the east asian nations can be pinned to one reason:EDUCATION. the east asian quality of education is superb. educators will not tolerate any nonsense which may diminish astudent’s learning and thinking ability. here in india charlatans call the shots in policy decisions regarding education and much else. truly our average politician is like a semi literate baboon who bends & ruins whatever he touches in public domain.he thinks his antics will give him name and fame. sadly there is none to stop these.
I met a Srilankan in Japan in 2000. He told me that he will not force his daughter to learn english but he will force her to learn chinese or hindi. I think he will definitely ask her to learn chinese now.
there was a time when indian growth rate was better than that of china (1950-60). later the indian focus stumbled and chinese got better. sometimes i wonder is really democracy is an advantage to this nation where middle class dont even bother to vote. we dont use the rights given to us for any good. instead the bads linked with democracy (the bad politics and survival stunts by politicians) are more prominent in the society.
but i also see the good note. i do remember the pre IT boom pre infosys pre mobile revolution times. things have changed hugely. and the change was brought by people not the politicians or red tape. though the things take time to evolve the change has always amazed the world. we might not we very well aware of what we are going to do but when we the people (not politicians or others we blame) know it, world will see. WISH ITS NOT TOO LATE.
The point of this whole article as I see is not just China vs India but what ails India at a larger scale.
With human dependence on technology growing, it is not the time for technology colonization. (see the similarity with geographical colonization a few centuries ago.) China by intent or accident is on the way to this. (Tell me one hardware product that does not come from China). You might argue that India has software.
A little bit of history, we were always very powerful in our knowledge system (software) but it was always the physical strength and infighting (hardware and lack of support and strategy) which led to our downfall.
The same is the case here. We tout our achievements in software, at what cost ? At the cost of our manufacturing capabilities, at the cost of defense, at the cost of our infrastructure, at the cost of education and a lot of other things necessary for the building of a great nation. A nation is not built just on software and services. We have to build and build something real.
I rest this part of the argument here.
Someone has to make a start somewhere, and China has made a start and I believe in the right direction. You cannot gain both consensus and development (again refer to history, no civilization ever progressed on consensus). Every thing comes at a cost for which the current generation of Chinese are paying (at some time in the past people in US, UK, France, every one paid this price). 50-yrs down the line, at this rate China will be the most sought after country to live in.
Where are we?? Busy, self congratulating on our small achievements. Always waiting for the new master to come and rule us.
The biggest drawback, we never learn from our history. And someone rightly said long back “History Repeats”.
Wonderful article,
Just a small error maybe, China was never colonized and the article says that they shed their colonial inferiority complex.
China was at the same point India is 10-15 years ago. India is on its way up, growing 6-8% annually.By 2025, India will have the GNP as large as Germany or Japan. It does not matter what China do, or where China is, India has to do its own thing and just keep getting better.
@ramjee
well said
Absolutely great article.
Just a couple of points.
1) Umair Haque talks about china and that they are great in industrial era business, but not innovation. Link.
http://bit.ly/6ha70r
2) Growth comes from innovation that drives the productivity of the national economy. If you look at the value created by Apple, the parts costs only $80 but sells for $210, the value created and captured came from higher level design and innovation.Link
- Who Captures Value in a Global Innovation System? The case of Apple’s iPod : http://bit.ly/24rJMT
3)Startups should come from the development of people in terms of education and opportunities, not from the government.
- Wharton Interview with @vwadhwa on Immigrant Entrepreneurship and building a $120 million company : http://bit.ly/2YdBez
@Praveen,
(1) The Thomson Reuters “World IP Today” report predicts China will overtake Japan and the US to be the world’s leading innovator by 2012. You can download the full report from this website: http://science.thomsonreuters.com/news/2009-02/8502354/
Here is another (2008) report from one of America’s premier research universities which showed China ahead of the U.S. in technological standing. The statistics used was from 2007. China has only got better since then.
(3) “Startups should come from the development of people in terms of education and opportunities, not from the government”
Yes this is exactly what is happening in China. The government is just facilitating this by policies and incentives. The startups are NOT from the government.
Oops. Missed the link for the 2nd report.
Here it is again : http://www.gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/newsrelease/high-tech-indicators.htm
(This is not the original report. But I can’t find the original report. But it basically says the same thing)
Useful reports, Brandon! Thanks..:)
what india lacks, is the political will. Its what can make wonders. There are some politicians who are working in this direction but they seem too busy to notice this very important part of the big picture.
@ashish, can you elaborate on what do you mean by political will. The only thing government can do, is make it easier for startups to get started (i.e easier to start and close a business, labor laws) and give project based on efficiency rather than red tape.
I also heard at NASSCOM, that the ecosystem is there, and we are hungry for good startus.
@brandon, innovations cannot be forced, it does come from a lot of environment variables.
Also, the India story is from domestic growth, where as China is mostly from exports.
Never said it was forced.
Was only trying to give you the current snapshot of their technological and innovation standings. Nothing more, nothing less.
It’s also important to check who said the stuff at Nasscom! All I can suggest is that keep away from “NOOBS”…there are plenty of them.
And the ecosystem is yet to come, Praveen. Don’t just dismiss an achievement by a country which is twice as large as India, a more difficult terrain to work around with and presumably even lesser degrees of freedom as compared to ours!
political will is the will power of those in power. this is what in its maximum turned a desert area into california… and at least turned india’s top industrialized states (bihar, w.bengal) into a backward state, elongated very basic at start problems into national disturbances (kashmir issue after 71 war win, naxalism, pollution, population).
imagine if the political leadership, all talking shit on the national television, start talking about the national development… bring a national revolution… something like bharat chodo movement. hard to imagine because of ur clear knowledge of their worthlessness.
I can see the difference because I am from a state that has seeen a hell lot of development just because of this mentallity where elections are solely fought on the development feature. where people under poverty is in 100’s n may be know more. second in education, 3rd in consumer market. HIMACHAL PRADESH. another example is gujrat, which showed awesome progress after famine then earth-quake, riots and all.
its brilliant show of political will which is making modi a chief minister despite his deeds and intra party politics. (other than his this trait m against his policies)
regarding this topic… they all talking about the poor state of employment. they can give lil money for making basic amenity structure in village but cant let them get trained to do what they want to. the education system (till 12th atleast) is directed on making left brainer cramming machine who are worthless if another self doing machine comes in the market. internet and information technology is bringing in a new industrial revolution. consider for example google managed by mere 3000 ppl, wikipedia and youtube by below 50 ppl. and look at the giant tasks they are doing. how many ppl would take for their offline model.
entrepreneurship is not a option for the national growth… its a need. present gaints were startups of past tym. where are towmorrow’s giants, we need to work on this, at individual level to the top of the hierarchy (politics) of the society.
competition is necessary. just watch a video on TED. america’s rate of innovation in space field reduced is than what that was in USSR time.
we have a great competitor. n it doesnt respect us any more. we have to show our eligibility.
the influence of hindi heartland in national politics and policy making has been a bane in india’s progress. the amount of filth and shit they pour on india is awesome. why the quality of people who become leaders in the region is so destructive despite hard working,intelligent and pragmatic general populace is agreat enigma. also why we worship worthless fond of empty talk leftists is another mystery. what the leftists have done to west bengal is publicity for an award for non performance. they have covered up their criminalities by lies and slogans. it’s a commentary on us that we respect these people as saints and heroes.
Ashish we should have one more article on this… like all comments themselves are such qualified responses…I like it
yaa i also think so. looking if guest can post any article. and yes the participation in discussion and the openness is awesome. this is an awesome platform.
@brandon, yep got it, spot on.
@ashish,Only understand a few things(maybe because, belong to the middle class and not much interest in politics), such as by the year 2048 the per capita income of Indian’s will catchup with US(by Hans Rosling in Ted India), yep I agree that they(US) have been growing for the past 200 years, but still their achievement is remarkable. For a country with 300 million population to have 1/3 rd of the world GDP, the last time I checked the world GDP was around 33 trillion and US had around 11 trillion of that. Where is India in this picture? with just 1 or 2 trillion of GDP.
As for china, they have a much older population than India, and the majority of the Indian’s are just entering the workforce. We do have the benefit of demographic divident. This talk by Nandan at TED, talks about what will drive our growth, not the government, but the aspirations of a billion people on the move. http://bit.ly/5BNzHI
As for the creation of world class firms, we need to note that US has the best educational system on the plant. How many of Indian universities are in the top 100. One more thing to note, is what makes institutions such as Harvard and Stanford? Its not their undergraduates, but their Graduates (post graduates in Indian terms). i.e the Gradates produce original work that move their fields forward. This combined with funding and a big market are the key ingredients of US competitiveness. Now does India have the world class graduate students(science,technology and business), access to funding and big domestic market. Good was a Stanford project. So my question is does India or China have the ecosystem to produce such start-ups. Does China have world class universities that are producing start-ups.
Here is ABC report on India, with C.K.Prahalad : http://bit.ly/8tXx6E
Totally agree that political will is needed, would definitely contribute to this movement, but not sure how.
I think we can take a lesson or two from Gramin phone from Bangladesh, here the founder Iqbal quadir talks about the myths of relying on the government (@ashish please note the myths), he has created a 100 million dollar company that service the poor. http://bit.ly/6DijzJ
also note the achievements of our own Dr Devi Shetty : “The Henry Ford of Heart Surgery” Process innovation in healthcare! Pioneering model http://bit.ly/4PcbY . Does China have these bottom up innovative healtcare models ?
and C.K Prahalad on Business+Strategy (PDF) : http://bit.ly/8Sgykw
The last point is a Democracy can be much more conducive for entrepreneurs than a socialist country. Companies like Infosys have grown due to the spirit of entrepreneurs in a free country.
If u do exactly similar drafting of achievements by the chinese, u’ll find the list longer than ours. Do not be disheartened coz our story ain’t bad either… but we need to remain competitive.
Look at this: http://www.jinke.com.cn/compagesql/English/embedpro/prodetail.asp?id=20 an example of Kindle look alike with Chinese IP that was developed three years ago to compete with Amazon’s Kindle.
Infosys is passe, products are the future. We are trying inculcate that spirit within ourselves…:)
People who say China does not have software should remember that there are millions of lines of code in a typical Huawei 3G mobile node. Unless we are talking about hammer and nails, there is no hardware without software.
Software Vs Hardware is not meaningful these days, we’d be better off contrasting Services (transfer of IP to client) vs Products (owning the IP).
@ parveen
i really wish all our optimism come true and we become worlds 3rd BIGGEST economy just because the projections suggest it all. m not being cynical… for i know we indians have always shown a different way to the world.
I
india already starte requirement competing with whole world immediate requirement is a perfect leader
@ parveen
i really wish all our optimism come true and we become worlds 3rd BIGGEST economy just because the projections suggest it all. m not being cynical… for i know we indians have always shown a different way to the world.
what is the benefit of the demographic advantage if our next generation is not trained enough. when for 10 seats of clerical in a bank we have 2 lakh people appearing. its not demographic advantage for now its clearly is huge unemployment. a young guy with desires but no way before him is also a dangerous scenario.
china may not have the best of the universities as world sees but it surely has a vision. vision that is empowering his people and generating revenues. u can see the effect in the markets of india. they make from kites for makar skraanti to fire works for deewali. and every thing is cheap.
i dont know why people cant see it. its another beginning of something that started in the industrial age. china is slowly capturing our markets then the markets we serve. leaving us with no fields to fight for. at the same time empowering its army. they are preparing not only to beat us but something more. may b just what i see.
watched the grameen phone founder’s TED presentation. wise man with kind heart n a clear vision. such people are gem. he solved a fundamental problem and made an infrastructure.
now lets come to the point of political will. put the same person in power (we are a democracy and this is possible). imagine what wonders people like this can make. we dont exactly need a cell phone now and we dont have time to experiment with one generator in one village. we need some fast actions. urgently. if people have to start building the infrastructure themselves, why the hell do we need a government at the first place than, why we are paying taxes.
I totally agree with the point that the people shud work on their level. but how can a guy think like this when we have best brains trying to have a good job and poor people forced to do things just to feed their family.
its an irony that the socialist economy is giving us a lesson on how to generate startups. (china doing better is the theme of the article.). all efforts are needed.
Good one …But common guys …dont crib yourself too much ….
I think its incredible for a system to enable a folk from rural India to provide with an affordable education , a job for survival , a comfort level to think beyond job , to place him in a launchpad and show him the sea of problems waiting to be resolved in just a matter of 8+ years.
well there are loopholes like funding , policy etc…
yet another complacent Indian who is covered in the shroud of proud. It is an incredible failure and accept it point blank.
@rakshit, m not…you might be a son of a rich dad…and in a fear now to loose the comforts if the nation looses the game …..i never enjoyed comforts and m not in fear…m only thanking the system for what it has done for me …system worked for me …it has enabled me …and the same is true for 100’s of my known one’s …m standing in a context where m ready to give back something to the system …
Imagine you are damn hungry… and there is a feast waiting for you …but what separates you from it is a little distance and two walls …a smaller first and a bigger next..once u cross the smaller one you got some water to drink . now you are not in a position ..not even able to crawl ..will you spend time building a solid ladder …so that you have broader plan to pass through the bigger wall …and all the future generations can also use that ….or u grab what ever you get near by …jump the smaller wall drink some water and make a plan to jump the bigger …thats where the nation stands …as a whole …
you got to have the empathy for the children of lesser god …you got to take them along …thats where we slowed down …
hey if AMBANI AND TATA WERE THINKING NEGATIVELY LIKE THIS THEY CANT COME UP TO THIS LEVEL FROM A PETROL BUNK ATTENDANT TO THIS WORLDS RICHEST FAMILY IF THAT TRANSFORMATION HAPPEND BY THESE YEARS THIS TRANSFORMATION OF INDIA IS ALSO POSSIBLE INDIA REQUIRE PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR A RIGHT PERSON AND A PERFECT KINDHEARTED MULTIEXPERT YOUNG PATRIOTIC FORESIGHT LEADER, PEOPLE SHOULD AVOID DOING EVIL THINGS AND STOP EVIL THINGS HAPPENNING AROUND.. INDIA HAD A GOOD NAME COMPARING WITH OTHER COUNTRIES ON MORAL THINGS DONT EXPECT ALL OF THEM TO BE LIKE THAT FIRST PEOPLE THEMSELVES MUST BE PERFECT FROM NOW. ALWAYS SAYING OUR COUNTRY NOT PERFECT NOT PERFECT FIRST WE MUST BE PERFECT AND WE MUST DO OUR JOBS PERFECTLY WHEN WE R IN ANY RESPONSIBILITY OR ATLEAST HELP THOSE WHO FIGHT AGAINST EVIL… NO ONE CAN STOP THE GROWTH OF INDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don’t u first learn how not to use caps lock for your opinions. IDIOT.
Very Useful article .. thank you
Browse http://www.evhub.biz/news regarding business opportunities in electric vehicles in India…
Year 2048
TED Hans Rosling: Asia’s rise — how and when http://bit.ly/7f5efy
@parveen
the perceptions of the swedish guy (in link provided by praveen) is based on his own experience. and u r making ur perception on his presentation and others. this is where india lacks. we are so desperately in need of a success, and we are so much deprived of it, that we tend to find it in opinion of other people. we keep it above what i see. i bet if he come to see the india now n live here for a month he would like to be a more realistic.
point to be noted, he also talked about the dangers of social inequalities. India is a hub of social inequalities. he didnt talked about the orrisa and jharkhand or the millions or people living in the slums. they would match the africa.
optimism is welcomed. but what is the purpose of the growth if the people of the same state are deprived of even the basic amenities. i wud site a real incident. the beggars on the street are deprived of the social transport facilities even if they pay for it. we look down upon them. what is meaning of this growth or what others say about growth. others see us as a market atleast we should see our nation as our home…
wonderful article guys… keep on posting..
But, it is not fair to compare china with india where the basic freedom is suppressed by the government in china. Even the people of china dont no the real meaning of freedom which is a real real basic need to live. The government always takes the lead and force the people to do the things. they treat them like slaves where the government cannot consider the people opinion .
Development means not only physical things which we can see and feel like buildings, roads and towers & money. it also constitutes some mental merturity where people can question , can stand against bad,fearlessness.
In short term china may lead the world but in longrun it is not possible
Finally,in my opinion china might become world power in terms of power,money & miltary but their people will not becom powerful forever which is very much possible in india.After all i believe “a country is not a bunch of leaders ruling country but people living in that country”
Funny man here
People passing lenghty jugdements without even knowing the neighbour…nee not even ourselves! lol
Kumar,
you are kidding man!!
go and see China! See how people live there. And then tell me what you see.
I guarantee you if you stay there for a few months, you won’t want to go back to India!
go there and talk to the people. See if you can find anyone in China wanting to swap their homes and livelihoods with ones in India.
Wake up man!!
great article……
Zoro,
I agree with u, i cant come back leaving a quality life in a great country like china and i am sure i cannot post this blog as
communists dont want me to do this.
my parents will give up their religious things to live in china.
my wife will giveup her desire of having two kids to have a quality of life in china.
my kids will be forcefully trained for an olympic gold .
even then i cant go against authorities of china and i have to pose like saying long live mao… with a burning heart inside..
wat i am trying to say is we cant go against atleast protest against government in china even if it impose some odd restrictions.
china will put the stake of its people lives to show great numbers in terms of building,gold medals, gdp to the world.
yes, we can lead great quality of life in china if we can sacrifice some things.
values and natural growth are sustainable in long term which is not possible with china.
China started liberalisation 30 years back & india started 20 years back a gap of 10 years is there .it will take time for us to get results and we are growing with democratic values.We people of india leads the india growth unlike in china where gov
decides everything
Still ,”china may become powerful but not its people”
Kumar,
I didn’t come here to argue with you. But I have to point out that most of the things you say are either false or at least not the way you portray them to be. For example :
1) No, China has more religious freedom than you imagine. China has the most Budhists in the world, I think the 3rd most Muslims in the world. There are countless Budhist temples, Muslim mosques, Christian churches and Jewish synagogs in China.
2) Sure, if your wife was to have 2 kids, the 2nd child would lose all benefits and rights. But even if so, your kid would probably still end up with a better life in China than in India. As I said, go there and see for yourself.
3) No, come on! What are you talking about? Kids in China are not forced by the authorities to train for Olympic gold. Their parents force them to train for gold, not the government. And not just for the Olympics, but also for university entrance, etc.
4) As for complaining, what good is complaining in India if you can’t change ANYTHING. How would that be better than in China? I would much prefer food on the table and clean drinking water than shouting empty slogans for change.
5) A gap of 10 years??? You have to be dreaming! I went to China 14 years ago. No one single Indian city TODAY can match an average city in China 14 years ago. And I mean it! Don’t believe me. Ask anyone who has been to China 14 years ago.
Yes , i agree with Kumar.
“China may become powerful bt not its people”
I have a friend from china,where his land was occupied by chinese authorities and want to build an SEZ .the thing is he got only 10% of the land value as compensation and he cannot atleast question the authorities there where as in india we can drag the government to court which is impossible in china. Here we can atleast gets delayed judgement.
When some other land owners went to protest against the gov the police ended the case by putting them in jail and tortured them like anything.
One day definitely the quality of life will be developed in india and equals to china and at that if u ask the question (ofcourse it will take decades).
” will u swap ur home and livehood with ur chinese counterparts”
definitely the answer will be a BIGGGGG “NO”
Bhopal gas tragedy guys/relatives are waiting for justice for one generation. You should actually go n face some land based issue with the authorities. Or may be even open a legitimate business like a restaurent. Your big FART “no” will die within your ass only.
Do you have any idea how many tribals are displaced because of the dam constructions in the past 50 years? Do you have any idea how many of them have been rehabilitated? Hint: The answer is in crores. Although I don’t quite like Arundhati Roy, but do read “Algebra of infinite justice” for an essay on the same topic.
I was two years old when my family was stuck in Bhopal Gas tragedy. And I still know a hundred families personally who haven’t gotten any relief from the government. Heck, people who have lost their relative, their limbs or the eyes were just shown the door after being granted mere twenty five thousand rupees if they were lucky.
Read up something about India as well, before portraying China as the all evil country.
There is Gini coefficient that tells, the gap between rich and poor of a country.
The gini coefficient is higher in China than India, indicating a greater disparity between the haves and the have nots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
Gini coefficient by itself is not meaningful. You have to put it into context of the countries you are comparing.
For example, the USA also has higher gini coefficient than India. Does that mean India is a better place to live than the US? Does that mean Indians are happier than Americans?
If you care to look at the total picture, you will see that China and the US leads India in almost EVERY SINGLE measurable Human Development Index including literacy, IQ, education level, wealth, life expectancy, infant mortality rate, …etc.
(Yes, you saw it right: including IQ!!)
( My appologies to my Indian friends on my side of the debate. I don’t usually compare things so bluntly. But I just had to respond )
The calculation of Genie coefficient is different in India. As usual, this so called democratic India lies to its people. The whole world calculates genie coefficient based on INCOME but our so called democratic country calculates based on CONSUMPTION.
Now we all know that after a certain consumption level, it hardly goes up but income level can go up to no limit. I mean if you take Genie coefficient o GMR Rao and Mukesh Ambhani based on consumption, the figure will almost be equal but if you use income, the figure will show big inequality.
You must learn some of the evil trick that this so called democracy plays.
If the same thing happens in china can u atleast protest against authorities which is very muc possible in india and they got huge media coverage which is highly impossible in china.
People waiting for generations bcos they got a little hope where as in china, onspot they will fart and piss on ur face my dear brainless Bigg “no”.
Injustice is every where my dear but
We atleast got right to fight man….(irrespective of results).
I am not portraying china as an evil country but saying comparatively india is better than china in human values & Rights.
i pretty much agree with what u r saying. but the article is about the race in technology, business and entrepreneurship. that’s where China is leading most other countries…
Frankly, there is not much point complaining if it doesn’t change anything. Shouting empty slogans in the air is meaningless.
If you do insist on shouting slogans, you should have been shouting “put food on our tables”. Again I suggest you go to China and see for yourself how people live.
( And see my response above to your previous post )
yes Zoro there is no point complaining if it doesnot change anything.
Can u show any other way than shouting slogans in a democratic
country.
I think then blogging is also way of wasting time.
That’s a hard one. I wish I have the answers.
Both India and China are developing countries. As such, they are both plagued by corruption. And both are filled with people who have no respect for the law.
In my humble opinion, unless we can rid society of these 2 cancers, there just isn’t very much we can do.
I would suggest the best way to start is by education. Not just education for the elite, as seems to be the case in India, but for the whole popuation.
I guess that is one of the areas the Chinese government has done very well in. And the Chinese are starting to reap the benefits from that. It may be a surprise to people like Kumar, corruption levels in China is actually quite low compared to most developing countries.
I will say that even if india is growing at a slower speed than china………….but still as the saying goes slow and steady wins the race………..our PM has also mentioned that values of democracy are better to follow…GDP is not everything…….i saw an article yesterday that told that a young student was beaten up to death by 6 police officers outside a nightclub and his body was left on the road for whole night for the public to see…compare this in ghaziabad(delhi NCR) a man was killed by a bullet from the police when he was running to escape from the police raid…the locals lashed out in anger and put the police station on fire…the local police has suspended the 3 cops responsible for the death….but in china the cops r free and still in service
the other incident about killing of youth outside nightclub happened in china…u can check that on the net….social justice is very necessary for a long term sustained growth….
[...] China vs India on entrepreneurship – Great article abouth myths of India’s English advantage over China’s. How India is left far far behind in the area of entrepreneurship. Must must read. [...]
Chinese never has colonial inferior complex. They believe they are most superior race in the planet. One can look at letter which Emperor Qianlong sent to British Queen. They feel humiliated during last two hundreds years because inferior race conquered them and dominated them.
The “A Vietnamese”’s words about chinese people are not true. Actually your wording showed your hatre to chinese.
if the chinese think they r most superior then i think they need mental check up…………every human being in this world is equal and god has gifted every race, caste , creed with equal amount of intelligence, courage and love…Even the white people thought they were superior….the chinese will sooner then later learn there lesson. If judiciary and media is not free in a country i dont think the social structure can be healthy in such a place……USA as democracy has survived for centuries and is the best example of free and fair society……..with good economic growth as well
Why India will overtake China (CNN) : http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/30/magazines/fortune/IndiavsChina_pluggedin.fortune/index.htm
Government’s Positive Role in Kick-Starting Entrepreneurship(HBR) : http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/6318.html
Income Distribution by Country : http://www.visualeconomics.com/income-distribution-by-country/
A tiger is fed well in a zoo but it would always want to hunt or starve if necessary in a forest . This is called freedom . Learn from Tiger my high IQed chinese friends .
Democracy and republic are not imported to india from west . Harappa and Mohonjodaro were democarcies in 2000BC!
Indians are peace loving people . Whoever invaded India, made india their home and lived since then . Culturally rich! .
We drove off British because we were idelogically better,in our struggle for freedom . it is difficult to fight with non- volience than with machine-guns .And this is indegenious we did not import communism from west . you idiots dont even have ideology of your own
Please be informed that india was very good economically .
Greeks during the ancient times , Europeans dring the medivial came in search of India to beg for buisness . The britishers have wreked havoc on indian economy. And thats the reason why we are competing with ppl like you now.
Dont forget that we are at the worst in the history and you are at your best. Dont think we cant beat you just because you are ahead of us for the fist time is 4000 years old history .